Comments on: Survey Says Part 2: What about the LCMS?

By: Chris

Chris — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:48:41 +0000

Thanks Phil for your comments. I agree that people in varying Christian groups may interpret the word “religion” differently. Perhaps, then, some of the LCMS respondents considered Lutheran to be their religion and other Christian denominations as a different religion. Though, my initial reaction to “many religions” was more of those outside the Christian/catholic faith rather than subsets of Christianity.

By: Phil Magness

Phil Magness — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:15:03 +0000

Ooops, I wish I had edited the above before posting! I inadvertently appeared to mix the fides quae with the fides qua when I went over to various Christians’ understanding of Christian doctrine. That secondary point was true, but not necessarily a corollary. Probably some dynamic relationship there, but that would be worth a whole paper, not a blog post! Anyway, the real issue here is simply “saving faith”, and Lutherans understand that it is delivered through Word and Sacrament even where there is error in preaching and teaching. The Word is accomplishing His purpose where the Spirit wills, and sometimes that means we have ‘hard soilers’ sitting in our pews and not being enlightened by the means of grace – and sometimes, the saints are called and gathered regardless of the preaching of Rome or Geneva or Canterbury or Constantinople, So I can see why Lutherans might answer “yes” to that question. As to my observation about variances in knowledge of Christian doctrine it is also true, but beside the point. It is still healthy for us to acknowledge that, though. It keeps us from assuming too much about our own people.

By: Phil Magness

Phil Magness — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:01:32 +0000

Certainly there are more universalists in our pews these days – especially after the impact of the Yankee Stadium debacle, but I don’t think the Pew survey pianted an accurate picture on this one. When the typical American “evangelical” at, say, Praise Tabernacle hears this question, he hears the “your religion” as Christian and so answers “no”. Many Lutherans might think, “Catholic”, and say “yes”, becasue we believe that, despite her errors, the Holy Spirit still works salvation through the liturgy and Sacraments of the Roman communion. Indeed, many Lutherans might just be thinking of their Presbyterian cousins, who they know as Christian, but not of their “religion”. Note espeically that the Pew question stated it as “can be” saved in other “religions”, which makes it easier for Lutherans to answer “yes”, because we believe it CAN happen, despite the errors of the human institution, because we trust the Holy Spirit to do His work. Certainly there are fewer impediments to His work in our congregations (generally!), but there are many Lutherans who are further away from understanding and confessing Christian doctrine than some of our confessing Evangelical, Anglican, Roman, and Orthodox friends. As any pollster will tell you, bad questions yield bad information.

By: steadfastlutherans.org » Pew and Lutherans

steadfastlutherans.org » Pew and Lutherans — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:50:36 +0000

[...] Veith pointed the way to a few other bloggers who have been looking at the LCMS-specific numbers coming out of that massive Pew report on [...]

By: Reaching the churched in the LCMS — Cranach: The Blog of Veith

Reaching the churched in the LCMS — Cranach: The Blog of Veith — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:07:26 +0000

[...] worth a chuckle, but the Lutheran Kantor finds disturbing numbers: The survey classified the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS) to be an [...]

By: Susan R

Susan R — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:03:24 +0000

People may have responded counter to what they really believe, saying what they thought the surveyor hoped to hear or the public would bear, afraid to identify themselves and their true, confessional beliefs.
Cowardly, yes, but it happens often in surveys.
Either way, whether they are cowards or heretics, it’s pathetic.
Anyways, thanks to Ben, this is the first place I’ve heard that statistic about the LCMS, and it is shocking and it is sad.